The SA Parliament’s Budget and Finance Committee today heard new information of relevance to the people of Badcoe. The number of properties to be acquired has risen to ‘around 400’, the revelation of which properties will be acquired will now be ‘progressive’, and the Department discussed what being doorknocked by a DIT official might mean for local people.
*This is an unofficial transcript taken down by the Office of the Member for Badcoe. All care has been taken to ensure accuracy but for the official transcript please contact the Secretary of the Committee.
BUDGET AND FINANCE COMMITTEE
Monday, 20 September 2021
Excerpts regarding the North-South Corridor T2D project
Q: With regard to the North-South corridor, is the department aware of all the properties that need to be acquired for that?
BRAXTON-SMITH: For the first stage, yes, because we have finalised the design of the first stage and we have been in contact with the affected property owners. There are 64 properties there. In relation to the rest of the corridor, we are very close to finalising the design and having all the necessary sign-offs for the northern end of the southern tunnel which will be there for the next set of properties, where we can be clear with the owners as to the impacts on those properties.
The design of the remainder of the alignment, again we are progressing the design and will finalise the design of all of that by the end of the year or before the end of the year. By that time, we will be able to provide definitive advice to each of the property owners as to whose properties are impacted.
Q: How many properties are to be acquired that you are aware of at the moment?
BRAXTON-SMITH: Our advice originally in the previous alignment, which we started the study on in 2019, was there were about 900 properties. When we moved to the hybrid+, which we are now developing the design for, that reduced the impact substantially and the numbers remain somewhere around 400 properties.
Q: Have notices of intention to acquire been issued at this stage?
BRAXTON-SMITH: The notice of intention has been issued only to those affected parties for what is known as Stage 1A, which is the portal for the southern tunnel, the southern portal, which is around the Darlington area.
Q: Have those owners been advised by the department? We all know that the moment a notice of intention is acquired the market dies for those properties because there is no other purchaser in the market. Has the department advised owners and valuers involved in acquisition matters that, in determining compensation, the valuers have to disregard the fact that the announcement was ever made?
BRAXTON-SMITH: Yes, there are very clear instructions made to valuers. The valuers, as you probably would be aware, conduct the valuation in accordance with the principles of valuation, but the instruction is that they are to disregard the fact that the property is now impacted by road construction, and in general we resolved out in favour of the affected party.
The department seeks a valuation. The affected party is then at liberty to seek their own valuation from a registered valuer. The department meets the reasonable cost of that person getting the value and then, if they have a different and higher valuation, generally there will be a conference between the valuers, and the principle that we apply is to resolve all doubt in favour of the owner.
Q: What role does the Valuer-General play in this exercise?
BRAXTON-SMITH: The Valuer-General identifies the valuers whom we use but, to my knowledge, the Valuer-General does not play any other role.
Q: Do they have a panel of valuers that owners can select from?
BRAXTON-SMITH: They do.
Q: Does the Valuer-General also advise those valuers about the fact that, once a plan is announced, the valuer has to disregard the fact that that plan was announced?
BRAXTON-SMITH: I am not aware of the advice the Valuer-General provides, but I would be happy to take the question on notice and provide you with information about what advice we provide the valuers.
Q: In terms of compulsory acquisitions—on to the one we were listening to a few minutes ago—when will landowners be advised of compulsory acquisition on the Torrens to Darlington South Road project?
BRAXTON-SMITH: The Torrens to Darlington South Road project is quite extensive and the information is being provided progressively as the design is finalised per section. The design is developing rapidly, but there is a fair amount of detail that needs to be completed in order to be definitive. We don't want to alarm people unnecessarily. We have given, I think, indications as to the alignment. I think, before the end of the year all affected parties will be advised.
I will just see if I have something more precise. No, sorry, I can't provide more information on the basis of the notes that I have
Q: That's alright, Mr Braxton-Smith. What you have said aligns with what the minister is stating publicly—that people will know by Christmas—but department staff are telling people in Glandore that it will be late October.
BRAXTON-SMITH: Well, it will be progressive. As I explained before, we have done the southern end of the southern tunnel, which is around Tonsley. We are working from south to north, so the next stage of design to be finalised and signed off is the northern end of the tunnel and the section through the midsection, I think, which is the airport connector through Anzac Highway-Richmond Road. That would be the next one that we are aiming to provide advice on in October, and then before the end of the year those parties that are affected by the northern tunnel and the connection to the Torrens to Torrens.
Q: Do you stand by your earlier advice that there were 326 properties that are going to be compulsorily acquired?
BRAXTON-SMITH: How many?
Q: 326.
BRAXTON-SMITH: No, I don't think I ever stated that.
Q: I think there were 390 and then there were 64 that have already been announced at Tonsley, which leaves 326.
BRAXTON-SMITH: So where does the 390 come from?
Q: My understanding is that's what was originally announced as the number to be compulsorily acquired.
BRAXTON-SMITH: Yes. At the time that we had the concept design, we gave an estimate of 390, but the final numbers will be, as I said to you, around 400 I think was the number I used, and the numbers remain of that order, to my knowledge.
Q: So around 400.
BRAXTON-SMITH: Obviously we are working hard to minimise the impact and minimise the property acquisition that's necessary to complete the project.
Q: Are you confident that it won't go above 400?
BRAXTON-SMITH: I have said around 400 and I don't have any particular information and am not in a position to make hard commitments to numbers. We are doing our best to minimise the impact, so the impact on each property is tested and challenged in the design phase to see if it's essential or not.
Q: So it could go over 400 then?
BRAXTON-SMITH: The design has been developed substantially since the announcement to which you refer and, as that design develops and different on/off ramp configurations are tested in detail for how they work, numbers move around.
Q: Locals are telling the opposition that DIT officials are knocking on doors and telling people they will be in touch with them later but no details are being provided. People, of course, are getting quite upset from that. If someone does receive such a visit, does that mean that their home is likely to be acquired compulsorily?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH: We continue to engage with community over a range of particular issues. Just because one of our community engagement team knocks on the door does not mean necessarily that that property is going to be subject to compulsory acquisition. In fact, I have been advised by my team that generally that's not the way that we provide advice in South Australia to an affected landowner.
Q: Are you saying that officials are not knocking on people's doors?
BRAXTON-SMITH: No, I am saying that our community engagement team is knocking on doors to provide advice and information to members of the community, but the official advice as to the property being the subject of acquisition—I am advised that in South Australia, as a consequence of a committee that was several years ago, which I think you may have been involved in, the department has an approach that has been developed over time based on lessons learned from previous projects and informed by a committee that predated my time in the state, which is why I am reaching for notes.
One of the important changes that has been made over time is the practice of doorknocking properties impacted by land acquisition has been discontinued and instead replaced by initial contact through a letter to the landowner.
Q: So you are saying that people are not knocking on doors now, that people might be getting a letter, but either way they are not getting information. They are just being told, 'Maybe this will be acquired and we will talk to you later.'
BRAXTON-SMITH: We are providing information to the community generally, which says about the alignment, the extent of potential impact, but the formal advice as to the property being acquired is done in the manner as I have described.
Q: Can you understand that that's incredibly stressful for people? They are not sure if they are being told that they are going to lose their house or that they are not going to lose their house but sometime down the track they will find out. That seems an incredibly unfortunate way to be advising people of such a significant impact on their lives.
BRAXTON-SMITH: My understanding in general is that the north-south corridor is a project that's been around for over a decade, and anyone living on South Road would have it somewhere in the back of their mind. When we get into the design phase and we start to narrow down on design development and start to engage with the community about the concepts, then that is a time when it creates anxiety. I previously had responsibilities in New South Wales, where our practice was to doorknock when a property was to be acquired.
Q: When did the doorknocking cease here?
BRAXTON-SMITH: I will finish your question, if I may. That, too, can be confronting. I think the reality is that a compulsory property acquisition ranks right up there in terms of a stress event in life
Q: Absolutely.
BRAXTON-SMITH: —with some of the more stressful events that we have in our lives, but there is no good way, as in a way that's not going to cause stress, to actually share that information with an affected party, so the best we can do is to do it with empathy.
Q: If people in Glandore are being told verbally that their homes will be compulsorily acquired, is that contrary to the process that you are outlining?
BRAXTON-SMITH: I think there are probably properties there where it is certain, and I don't have information about any particular conversations. But if you have a particular party who is stressed or concerned, then I would be quite happy to ensure that we engage with them directly.
Q: I just want to clarify one other thing in regard to your earlier answer in relation to the 400 properties. Does that include the 64 that have already been announced at Tonsley?
BRAXTON-SMITH: Yes.
Q: So it's 400 total?
BRAXTON-SMITH: Around 400.
Q: That would be a conservative number, and you wouldn't knock on doors of people outside of that 400, would you, suggesting any intention to acquire?
BRAXTON-SMITH: The study area in the corridor is quite well defined but it could go on either side of the road, so you would want to talk to all parties until such time as the design is finalised.
Q: Yes, but you wouldn't want to alarm people.
BRAXTON-SMITH: We wouldn't be alarming people unnecessarily, no. We wouldn't be stepping into the next suburb or somewhere outside of the study area.
Q: Normally, it's a conservative number?
BRAXTON-SMITH: Yes, and we are generally conservative. So there will be, I would expect, some people who will go, 'Oh, well, that's good news,' because if you look at the whole of the corridor, and which side of the road you go, in talking to all potentially affected parties the numbers would be much higher.
Chair: Just before we go to Heidi who has a few questions, then to Frank and Justin, it might be of benefit to the committee—seeing the significant interest here—if you are you able to take that on notice and may be provide a map showing the specific areas, and what has been said to home owners in those areas?
BRAXTON-SMITH: I can certainly provide the committee with more information as to our current level of engagement, the nature of that engagement and in which parts of South Road we are engaging.
*This transcript is unofficial and taken down by the Office of the Member for Badcoe. All care has been taken to ensure accuracy but for the official transcript please contact the Secretary of the Committee.